Show, don’t Tell Writing Podcast Show Notes & Links
- 📰 Sign up for the Inspired Writing Newsletter HERE
- 📝 Submit Your Page for our Show, don’t Tell Coaching Episodes
- 🌟 Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts (Thank you!)
- Intro and Outro Music is Daisy by Zight and used under a CC by 4.0 DEED Attribution 4.0 International license. For more music by Zight visit https://www.youtube.com/zight
Now that you know what tension is, how do you slow things down when you want to amp up the tension? In this episode, Suzy and Sam explore pacing and how you can change it up in your own writing, and when you need an outside perspective.
🌟 Grab your spot in Suzy’s Inner Circle at www.suzyvadori.com/innercircle
Podcast Episode Transcript (unedited)
97. Pacing in your writing Transcript
Suzy Vadori: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Show, don’t Tell Writing Podcast with me, Suzy Vadori, where I peel back the layers of how to wow your readers with your fiction, your nonfiction. Anybody can bang out a first draft, but it takes a little more work to make your book as amazing as it can be. Join me as I share the step by step writing techniques you could apply to your writing right away.
As I host successful writers who share a behind the scenes look at their own [00:00:30] writing lives, and as I live coach writers on their pages giving practical writing examples that will make your own writing stronger. Nobody is born knowing how to write an engaging book. There are real and important skills that you need to learn on this show.
I cut through the noise and get you all the info you need. I can’t wait to see how this information is going to transform your writing. Today on the podcast we are going to talk about tension [00:01:00] and how to create in your books ’cause that is something that will keep the readers flipping pages I have on the podcast today, Sam Cameron, otherwise known as Sam Cam.
She’s a Formula One fan and a writer of queer love stories. She put these two passions together, and now she writes queer F1 rom-coms based on Shakespeare plays. After 10 years as a high school history teacher, Sam shifted gears to become a book coach and a freelance editor. She’s the author of the [00:01:30] weekly Substack Truant Pen, where she shares actionable advice for stuck writers.
I got the opportunity to record this in person with Sam. Sam is one of the most articulate people who can read the room and feed back to you what everybody is saying in just an absolute mirror of what we’re thinking. And with the best word choice. He is absolutely brilliant. I can’t wait for you to hear what she has to say about building tension in books because it’s gonna [00:02:00] help your writing so much.
Have fun with it. So a big part of what you do in your work and what you’re amazing at is finding where somebody’s manuscript lacks tension, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Either through coaching or through a manuscript evaluation. So if you find that a scene lacks tension or that the book lacks tension, what are your best tips to fix it?
Sam Cameron: Okay. That’s a really good question. So the answer is different if it’s. The pacing of the whole book [00:02:30] versus if it’s the pacing of a scene.
Suzy Vadori: Yeah. Can you just actually dive into like, tension and pacing are so intertwined. Do you wanna just maybe address that?
Sam Cameron: Yeah. So pacing, I would say pacing is a little bit like the structural level of tension.
Suzy Vadori: Okay. And pacing specifically writers is, you know, how fast or slow it feels. Yeah. To the reader you’re writing. And we can play with that. I mean, a lot of times. Especially in your first books, your pacing might be too slow. Depending on the genre. Yeah. It might [00:03:00] actually be too fast and we wanna slow down important moments.
Sam Cameron: Yeah.
Suzy Vadori: Um, so sometimes, like, I, I love it when there’s this huge climax and it’s like three sentences. You should be drawing that out, slow that crap down. Right. It
Sam Cameron: was exactly. That was exactly my tip is that you want to, and it’s really counter is. Anything that you wanna be high tension, you want to slow down.
And this is exactly where show don’t Tell comes in. Yeah, right. Is that’s where you wanna get really deep into character. Interiority and physicalization.
Suzy Vadori: It’s your Zoom lens. [00:03:30] If you think of it like a movie, we’re either like zooming right in and listening to everything that’s happening or resuming out and seeing a montage with some music.
Like, like one of those two things. And you’re absolutely right. Like. Don’t miss those important really tense moments. Yeah. Great.
Sam Cameron: Yeah. So let’s say that, so first of all, in order to figure out where you’re, you are with pacing intention, you do need outside feedback or outside eyes. I don’t think
Suzy Vadori: It’s hard
Sam Cameron: to, it’s hard to, right.
And it’s about how does the reader feel mm-hmm. [00:04:00] When they’re reading it. And that’s hard to un unless you have like a really good sense for it. But even then. Really,
Suzy Vadori: it’s what keeps us, it’s what means that we have jobs. Yeah. So that’s a good thing.
Sam Cameron: Yeah, exactly. So you need, you need some feedback. And so if you’re getting the feedback that something’s off with potential pacing, and if people aren’t using those words, but they’re saying, I got bored and put it down,
Suzy Vadori: or, or they’re saying, I’ll get back to you.
I just didn’t finish your book.
Sam Cameron: Yeah.
Suzy Vadori: There’s your answer by the way.
Sam Cameron: Yeah. So that indicates you had a problem with tension and pacing. And [00:04:30] so for evaluating if it’s the. At the story level, some things to look at would be, can you define a story question, right? Can you distill down what is the question that your readers wants to know the answer to?
And if you can’t do that, you may be missing some story fundamentals like us, clear story goal, clear story stakes.
Suzy Vadori: Yeah.
Sam Cameron: So that would be the first thing to look for. The next thing to look for would be the [00:05:00] balance of where your chaos moments are. So I know payoff moments are really fun to write. So I know my early dress, too many of them ’cause those are the most fun scenes to write.
Um, and so one of the things I look for is, you know, to pull back on how much emotion characters are expressing a little bit, you know, to kind of. Create some of that. Save it up for like the really big moments.
Suzy Vadori: Yeah.
Sam Cameron: Reduce the number of times you [00:05:30] have physical intimacy, violence, things of that nature, and save it for the really.
Important moment.
Suzy Vadori: Yeah. And so you’re saying, you know, payoffs can be too many, but also obstacle Yeah. Can be too many, right? Like if you’ve got, we wanna make the challenges very difficult for your characters yet if you’re throwing an object, like a, something in their path that throws ’em off every paragraph, you got a problem.
’cause we’re gonna get tired as a reader. Right. Exactly. Boring.
Sam Cameron: So you need those [00:06:00] payoffs. So you, and you need that balance between obstacle and payoff. So kind of even just mapping out where the payoffs appear and looking for, do I not have enough? Do I have, do
Suzy Vadori: you have a number? So I would say I, I don’t know the answer.
I, I love asking a question that’s, you don’t know the answer to you. Do you have a number or no?
Sam Cameron: So I would say you really big payoffs should mostly occur at, so I, I like, I like the state of the cat [00:06:30] structure. The catalyst, the
Suzy Vadori: percentages.
Sam Cameron: Yeah. So the catalyst, which is like. What,
Suzy Vadori: 10%
Sam Cameron: through, I never forget the catalyst, which is like the big, the first big turning point, right?
Yeah. In the novel that stacks the whole story into moin. Mm-hmm. That’s kind of a payoff. ’cause it’s usually gonna be something big.
Suzy Vadori: Sometimes inciting. It’s
Sam Cameron: inciting it. Yeah. Because your reader probably actually knows that the inciting incident is already, that’s probably
Suzy Vadori: on the back jacket
Sam Cameron: copy. Yeah, exactly.
So the, the jaffy copy actually plays a role in all of this because, [00:07:00] or your pitch, if you’re pitching to an agent. The inciting incident is probably in there like every, pretty much everyone who picks up the Hunger Games knows that Kaus is going into the Hunger Games, right? Yeah. That’s why we pick up the book.
So the inciting incident is your first payoff, because that’s when we get the payoff of how did we get to the inciting incident. But the reader kind of already knows the midpoint is the second big place to put a payoff, right? So halfway through the books resolve. A big issue, right? Or have a [00:07:30] big,
Suzy Vadori: but before you resolve it, make sure you open a new one.
Sam Cameron: Yeah, open a new one and then the all is lost. Or the I don’t,
Suzy Vadori: dark wall,
Sam Cameron: dark soul. Like that’s where another good place to put. And then of course I wanna say, what is that for?
Suzy Vadori: Yeah.
Sam Cameron: Yes. Four big.
Suzy Vadori: I’m all about, I mean, we can break every single rule out there. Mm-hmm. But I like to quantify things for re for writers, just because we don’t do it enough in this industry.
Yeah. And so it makes it really difficult to guess. Right. Like what, ’cause everybody what is enough or [00:08:00] what are too many.
Sam Cameron: Yeah.
Suzy Vadori: But again, you can break rules. We share rules on this podcast to show you. What the norms are in the industry. And we don’t want you breaking every rule without understanding it because then your book doesn’t have a place.
It’s really hard to find readers if you’re breaking everything for the sake of, we don’t need to be completely original, so let’s learn from people who see dozens and hundreds of manuscripts. Where do these things work really well?
Sam Cameron: Yeah, and that’s what sounds super,
Suzy Vadori: super great at. Okay, so. [00:08:30] We started out this conversation by saying we’re gonna build tension by getting the reader to ask questions, right?
So why does Tension hold the reader’s at, I mean, this rhymes almost, almost sounds like, not a real question, but
Sam Cameron: I’m gonna
Suzy Vadori: try again. Why does Tension hold the reader’s attention so much? What do you think is going on in the reader’s minds or bodies? Because we talk a lot about how. Brain chemistry word.
Right. And, and how we react to [00:09:00] reading. ’cause at the end of the day, if your readers are reacting, they’re engaged.
Sam Cameron: Okay. Oh, this is, I love this question.
Suzy Vadori: Yeah.
Sam Cameron: So there’s a, I think there’s a couple of things brain chemistry-wise that are going, yay. Um, so. First of all, I think humans are naturally curious and I don’t know the name of the chemical that makes us curious, and this is one of the things I love about ya, that teenagers are really curious.
Yeah. Really strong, naturally curious.
Suzy Vadori: And a lot of times that’s why they read Age. They read up in age. Yeah. Because they are wanting to [00:09:30] know what’s the next,
Sam Cameron: yeah.
Suzy Vadori: What is this all, what’s being at a adult? What’s being at Senior? Yeah. And what’s being yuck.
Sam Cameron: So I think, so the first thing the tension does is it’s, it’s.
Taps into that natural curiosity all has by creating a question that we need to leave. I think the other things that well planned tensions gives us is it gives us a rush of adrenaline. You know, that that heart pounding, like it’s gonna happen next. What’s gonna happen next? Which we want. Like obviously [00:10:00] too much is not great, but I think everyone needs some amount of like excelling that, you know, and reading to be a way to do that.
And those payoffs give you a hit of dopamine.
Suzy Vadori: Dopamine then and Don having something that I don’t even think we need to define because it’s so, I mean, we all know with our smartphones and everything else, we’re understanding a lot more about
Sam Cameron: Yeah.
Suzy Vadori: The role of that hit of endorphins and dopamine.
Sam Cameron: Yeah. So you have the adrenaline of, you know, and, and again, will [00:10:30] depend on genre.
So some genres are gonna be more on the adrenaline, less on the dopamine. The balance will be a little different, but the adrenaline is sort of like, what is propelling your rear? Through the story, and then the dopamine is the reward that they get. And if you are placing those payoff moments well through the book, that rewards your reader for having stuck with you and then they want to, they want the next hit, right?
Yeah. If you’ve delivered
Suzy Vadori: that, they made the hit.
Sam Cameron: Yeah. If you’ve, if you’ve [00:11:00] delivered that first chemy shit. Um, and you do it well and you do it well. The read, now you’ve got the reader. ’cause they’re like, well, I want you as you have me again.
Suzy Vadori: Yeah, exactly. And I, I just love that. And I could geek out about this whole day because at the end of the day, understanding how your readers are reacting.
And, and that’s why, I mean, show don’t tell has so many layers and I always mm-hmm. Keep bringing it back. It’s not your boring English teacher’s advice. And one of the things that, there are studies out there. Brainwave [00:11:30] wise, that reading a book actually drags you through all the same emotions as if you were really there.
And so doing all of the things well Yeah. Like showing and, and dragging your readers into the scene and immersing there in this experience is what you need to do. Yeah. And then timing these hits or these. Payoffs attention and yeah. This is your job as the writer. It’s about more than just the story.
This is about learning your craft. Mm-hmm. And learning how to deliver an [00:12:00] absolutely exceptional experience for your reader. And that is gonna keep them buying every single thing that you write.
Sam Cameron: Yeah.
Suzy Vadori: And the difference.
Sam Cameron: And, um, the cool thing about teen brain chemistry,
Suzy Vadori: yeah. I know, I’ve been three teenagers know,
Sam Cameron: so I, I used to be a high school teacher and I learned a lot about like just teen development.
As part of that, and
Suzy Vadori: their brains are not fully
Sam Cameron: their brain.
Suzy Vadori: Some moments are really clear.
Sam Cameron: Yeah. So one of the differences between teen brains and adult brains and younger [00:12:30] children’s brains is that teenagers have a lower baseline level of dopamine in their brains. And so you, I don’t know if you notice this with your own kids, but it’s common for teenagers to suddenly lose interest in things that once used to really interesting and engaging for them.
Suzy Vadori: Right. And then adults, we labeled that depression.
Sam Cameron: Yeah. And they are to a level that’s also, it makes them more susceptible to depression. Exactly. So their baseline level of dopamine has dropped compared to what it was when they were younger. And likely what, where everything
Suzy Vadori: is exciting in the world.
Yeah. As you’re [00:13:00] discovering it.
Sam Cameron: Yeah. So as a, as a teacher, it was like, okay, how do you like, and also as a writer for tea, like how do you help them pass this back? That like, everything’s anu fast, but when they get a hit of dopamine, they’re so desperate for it. That’s why like, like are such a, you know, novel seeking, like novel as in a book, but also novel as in like new is such a big part of like what teenagers are doing is ’cause they’re so bored, they’re so of desperate for something that will give them that shit of domine.
Because they don’t have enough in the range rates. [00:13:30]
Suzy Vadori: Well, I think too there, I mean, I have, I am not an expert. I’m not a high school teacher. However, I am a mom and I was a teenager and I became a writer because my memory is unbelievable and I remember every moment feels really easy to draw on things, but, but yeah, as a teenager, you also are trying to figure out what is it that gives me pleasure?
What is it that gives me dopamine? Yeah. What is it that I like in this world that is separate from. What I did because my parents told me. Yeah. Right. And they don’t [00:14:00] always know what that’s going to be. Yes. And so if you can keep teens reading, and I, I mean, I admit I’m not, you know, my, my teens are not the most added readers.
I got one outta three. Uh, one of, but, but one of the other ones might be a writer still. Yeah. I still have hope. But yeah, it’s exploring that lens through different. Ways and different stories can help them figure out what they actually love most in this world.
Sam Cameron: Yeah. And and that same exact, the, the low [00:14:30] dopamine is also actually partially responsible for why teen emotions are so powerful and so strong.
And also, I mean, there’s hormone stuff too, but it also means that a lot of people’s memory formation is really intense when they’re teenagers. Mm. Um, and so a lot of people will have like really strong memories of their teen years. Compared to like, other parts of their life. Huh. So that was really interesting that you brought that up.
Suzy Vadori: Yeah. Well, I don’t even necessarily mean my, like, team years.
Sam Cameron: I can remember
Suzy Vadori: when I was two.
Sam Cameron: Yeah.
Suzy Vadori: Like [00:15:00] pretty vividly. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it’s, it’s interesting. Okay. We are at the quickfire portion above our, of our podcast, and I mean, I could talk about this all the time. You’re welcome to come back on. No, I know.
I
Sam Cameron: have a lot more about Teen Brain Chemistry.
Suzy Vadori: Okay, well, we’re gonna, we’re gonna, we’re gonna have a show all on that comment. Yes, please. If you wanna hear about Teen Brain Chemistry ’cause I know I do. Okay. So you run a successful book coaching business. What was your first big break that let [00:15:30] you know that this was the right career for you and led you down this path?
Sam Cameron: Oh, that’s a really good question.
Suzy Vadori: You’re inciting incident. My
Sam Cameron: insight, my inciting did was working with my first critique partner because I, it had never occurred to me that evaluating other people’s stories was something I’d be good at or that I’d like. ’cause I was like, well, I just wanna write my own stories.
Suzy Vadori: Yeah.
Sam Cameron: Um, which I do and I do want to do that, but I gotta del with me kiss out of evaluating somebody else’s and thinking about the ways that it could be [00:16:00] made better.
Suzy Vadori: Yeah. Oh, amazing. I love that. Okay. What’s your best advice for our listeners and that are or wanting to write their Merry first book?
Sam Cameron: Okay.
Have fun.
Suzy Vadori: Oh,
Sam Cameron: have fun.
Suzy Vadori: I love it.
Sam Cameron: It’s, there’s so much about writing that’s hard. You will keep showing up to do it. If it is fun.
Suzy Vadori: Yeah. Okay. And on that note, we wanna have a lot of fun. Go write your stories. Where can we find you sound count?
Sam Cameron: I [00:16:30] have a substack called Truant Pen, uh, where I have weekly posts with advice for writers.
That’s also my handle on Instagram, is at Truant Pen.
Suzy Vadori: Amazing. We’ll drop those show lakes. And do you wanna tell us a little bit about your coaching business?
Sam Cameron: Yeah, so I really love to work with writers who have finished a draft and. Have maybe tried pitching or submitting and something’s not quite working and you’re not sure what It’s, if you are stuck with this manuscript that you need to revise and you don’t know what to do with it, I’m your [00:17:00] gal.
Suzy Vadori: Oh, go find Sam cam. Thank you so much for being on this show. I am looking forward to maybe continuing this over dinner. I, I had such a treat to be in person with so many smart book coaches and to be in your presence and to have this conversation about tension in a way that I never thought about it before.
So thank you s Oh,
Sam Cameron: thank you for having me. This is so much fun.
Suzy Vadori: Thanks for tuning into the show. Don’t Tell [00:17:30] Writing podcast with me, Suzy Vidori. It is my absolute honor to bring you the straight goods for that book you’re writing or the book that you’re planning to write. Please help me keep the podcast going by helping people find us. You could subscribe to the podcast and leave a review on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever else you’re listening.
To show, wanted the show. That’s how other listeners will find us. Also visit Suzy vidori.com/newsletter to hop on my weekly inspired [00:18:00] writing newsletter list where you’ll stay inspired and be the first to know about all the upcoming training events and writing courses that happen in my community. You want my eyes on your writing?
Submit a page in your current draft for a chance to come on the podcast at the link in the show notes. I’d love to chat with you about your writing in my always positive, incredibly supportive way so that you can make great strides towards your writing goals. I’m here to cheer you on. Remember that book you’re writing is gonna [00:18:30] open doors that you haven’t even thought of yet, and I can’t wait to help you make that it the absolute best it can be.
See you again right here next week.